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 Post subject: Suggsetion: applause
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:05 pm 
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I have a suggestion. Often I download something here and find myself wanting to express my appreciation, but cannot take the time to compose a message. Couldn't there be a button "applaud" that I could press? Also, I presume the main reason people post music here is so that other can appreciate it, and making applause technically easy could increase feedback.

Pressing it should be just one click on a button next to the download of the music. Applauding multiple times should be allowed, if you really like something.

The performer could be notified when logging on (I'm not sure about sending an email for each applause - that might be a lot of emails for popular performers).

The performer should be able to see his or her accumulated applause (might be a well deserved source of pride).

You should only be able to see your own accumulated applause. Otherwise this will turn into a status thing, and energy would be spent comparing applause.

What do you think?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:46 pm 
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I would say that it is not a good idea, because what pianists want is not primarily applause, but comments on their playing.

Raymond


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:21 pm 
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rsmullyan wrote:
I would say that it is not a good idea, because what pianists want is not primarily applause, but comments on their playing.

I'd go along with that. A listener who likes a particular performance, and has just taken the time to listen to it, should take the time to post a few useful words of comment or appreciation. A token applause (by clicking a button) is useless and does nothing for a performer's motivation.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggsetion: applause
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:30 pm 
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troglodyte wrote:
I have a suggestion. Often I download something here and find myself wanting to express my appreciation, but cannot take the time to compose a message. Couldn't there be a button "applaud" that I could press? Also, I presume the main reason people post music here is so that other can appreciate it, and making applause technically easy could increase feedback.


funny idea, but in my opinion the purpose of this forum is different: pianosociety is becoming a place where people with different backgrounds can discuss about music, about their own interpretation, their way of managing the fact of being part-time pianists... everything. a wonderful place, i would say, and a unique one. the 'button' idea, that is to say to privilege ratings instead of discussions, works in a different direction; and i would be very sad if pianosociety lost this caracteristic to become something like youtube...
:-) Mr Duffy

ps. a warm applause to your Prokofiev 5th! (particularly the 2nd movt.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Quote:
I would say that it is not a good idea, because what pianists want is not primarily applause, but comments on their playing.


I agree wholeheartedly. Comments are more helpful. And if only more members would post comments! Only a handful of us take the time to listen to recordings and then make an effort to comment. The least the other members could do is to reciprocate. They post their pieces all the time, happily responding to comments about their playing, and then only once in a great while (or if ever) do they take five minutes out of their day to do the same for another member. That is not nice. And it’s bad manners - a pet peeve of mine. Another one is when someone asks for information or help with something, but then never acknowledges when he receives it. Bad, bad manners! (Sorry for the rant – I’ve wanted to say this for awhile)

I can’t count how many times something someone said about one of my pieces has helped me to improve it. We need the feedback to know if we’re on the right track with our playing. So, take the time to write a couple words to the performer. An applause button is a neat idea, but saying something is much better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:32 pm 
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I actually like the thread starter's idea, supposing that such a function would not be too complicated to integrate in the Web site. And since the proposition here is just a function that would not be part of any statistics, I find it interesting.

My view is that even though comments about a new uploaded piece can be useful, on the other hand they should never be necessary, just like you don't have to write a critique after you listen to a CD or go to a concert. Certainly most people want to perfect their playing and constructive comments about mistakes can achieve this goal. But on the other hand, comments about how a piece should be played "beyond what was written in the original manuscript" are most of the time totally subjective, not to mention all the indications found in editions which were not even written by the composer.

So I think this little applause button idea could serve to bring some spontaneous fresh air, on top of the usual down to earth theoritical analysis and comments.

Of course, I'm not the one who will have to write the code necessary to add such a function on the Web site. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:54 am 
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Duffy: Thanks for the applause!

I agree that comments are more valuable than applause. I agree that people *should* comment more. But we don't seem to do that. It is the same situation in other forums where I have been. The number of downloads of pieces are factors of 100 more than the number of comments. We may abhor this and discuss the reasons but it seems to be a fact. So for 95% of the downloads it will not be a question of "applaud or comment". It will be "applaud or nothing".

Being a newcomer I should perhaps not talk about the purpose of PS. But my impression is that it, apart from being a place where one can discuss, also is a repository of recordings. In this way it is different from eg Pianostreet or Pianoworld. This is a wonderful idea. I can browse by composer or performer, rather than go through the posts in the audition room.

Being at the amateur end of performers, I do often listen to something I never heard before and instinctively feel I like it or that it evokes emotions, but would be hard pressed to say exactly why, or what I could contribute to a discussion.

Of course, a token applause might be nothing to a serious performer. They seem to like it at live performances though. And for a complete amateur it might be something.

I don't understand the youtube analogy. Note I am _not_ proposing a rating system. The only one to get to hear the applause is the performer.

Oh well, it was just an idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:20 am 
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Cydonia wrote:
So I think this little applause button idea could serve to bring some spontaneous fresh air, on top of the usual down to earth theoritical analysis and comments.

I'd go along with this too, despite my previous comment. Instead of people just posting token responses like 'I like it' or 'Nice playing' we might as well have a button to save them that trouble.

However we must realize there are two sites. The forum is where a small number of people post and discuss recordings, but the main site is where 99.99% of people listen to our music. We have entertained the idea of a feedback and/or rating system on the main site, but not come up with any concrete ideas as yet. It may not be trivial to implement that, and our programming resources are limited - any web-savvy volunteers, please step forward :wink:

For the forum, I do not see the need for a change. By all means, let forum members post a few words of encouragement if they like what they hear. Maybe we should add an applause emoticon - but postings with just a smilie should really be discouraged.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:18 pm 
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Yes, what I meant was for the main site and not the forum. The idea of an emoticon is nice though! I'm uneasy about public ratings, because then it would seem like contributions are in competition.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:14 pm 
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Here's my two cents: I think the forum works as is, no need for changes here. We have several very active members who aren't shy about sharing praises and criticisms, as it should be here.

However, I've often thought it would be nice to have some way of responding to recordings that are especially moving to me. I was listening to something (can't remember right now) that Chris has on the main site (what doesn't he have on the main site, but that's another thread :wink: ), and I wanted to say how great I thought that particular recording was, but was too lazy to go to forum and send a PM. And Chris and I have a cyber-relationship (yes, that's right, we occasionally bump modems :P ), what if it was someone I don't know at all?

In addition, here in the forum, don't you feel we have a tendency to focus a bit on the missteps? And rightly so, most of us are amateurs that really want to play the best possible, but it'd be nice to hear some applause ... just as it's gratifying when you play for family and friends in your own living room, and they applaud at conclusion of piece. Much better than yawning silence, for sure!

Quote:
A token applause (by clicking a button) is useless and does nothing for a performer's motivation.


Would clicking a button be any different than slapping one's hands together?


Quote:
and i would be very sad if pianosociety lost this caracteristic to become something like youtube...


I think we'd all agree that youtube's highschool popularity contest buttons are meaningless.


Quote:
I'm uneasy about public ratings, because then it would seem like contributions are in competition.


I think we already have a level of competition here at site. And all competition is not bad, it does make one strive to do and perform better. Besides, I would imagine most of us posters check the download statistics page on occasion to see if anyone's listening to us out there. Or am I the only emotionally needy one around here?? (don't answer that, Chris :D ) At the moment, however, that's the only way to gauge if anyone is listening to your works or not. (that I know of, anyway)

Quote:
It may not be trivial to implement that, and our programming resources are limited - any web-savvy volunteers, please step forward


I would if I could! And anyway, (just to kiss up to the admins) we already appreciate what you guys do for the site ... I think these are just well-meaning suggestions on how to improve a much-loved resource.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:40 pm 
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I strongly hope you don't have an applause button either in the audition room or on the site.
Raymond


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:05 pm 
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nathanscoleman wrote:
In addition, here in the forum, don't you feel we have a tendency to focus a bit on the missteps?

I don't think we do. Mostly, praise is given where due, but errors should be pointed out otherwise you don't improve. I always try to distinguish slips and reading mistakes. The former don't bother me much (shit happens) but the latter do. I don't get away with any read errors in my lessons -unless I play something she doesn't know :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:12 pm 
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I'm not complaining, just explaining! 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:23 pm 
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techneut wrote:
I don't get away with any read errors in my lessons -unless I play something she doesn't know :P


Or just say to her that you're pretending to be Cziffra for the day and play what is not written (then assume that listeners will actually appreciate the slaughtering of music for mere entertainment)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:23 am 
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juufa72 wrote:
Or just say to her that you're pretending to be Cziffra for the day and play what is not written (then assume that listeners will actually appreciate the slaughtering of music for mere entertainment)

That could work. I seem to get away with it here on PS :lol:

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 Post subject: Applause Button
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:00 pm 
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I agree that constructive criticism is much more valuable than applause. Most of us are very appreciative of constructive criticism and it has helped me improve. Sometimes I want to respond to a post, but I don’t have any criticism to add because I either don’t know the piece or I can’t think of anything constructive to say.

Recently I haven’t responded to several posts because I think people may be getting tired of my repetitive, but sincere, praise. I enjoy most of the Audition Room posts and would much rather praise than criticize. Sorry. That’s just me. I believe it is important for us to be as positive as possible in our criticisms. It doesn’t encourage a pianist if the feedback is too negative. On the other hand, honest, sincere, positive criticism is very beneficial. Yet sometimes I wish some members would listen more for the overall effect of a piece rather than scrutinizing the score to point out every little slip or wrong note. I appreciate being told if I’ve made a reading mistake, but pointing out obvious slips is not helpful to anyone except perhaps the one doing the criticizing as it demonstrates that s/he noticed the error when others may not have. Good for the critic's ego? Does anyone really care? :roll:

As an experienced teacher, I learned that students of all ages will improve more with praise than criticism. Statistics prove that. When helping someone improve or learn, I would point out the most positive things about their work first. Then I would gently move on to the most serious errors and work on those first. Later go back and work out the smaller errors. Never underestimate the value of praise. That does not infer that the teacher should not demand high standards. Just remember “gradually.” Sorry for going on, I realize we PS members are not students in the formal sense, but most of us are hard working amateurs who want to improve.

Sorry, I diverse. Back to the button. :wink: I don’t know how complex it would be to install an applause button. Most listeners are not PS members and therefore cannot respond to the posted pieces. Perhaps an applause button would be effective on the main posting site. I’m not sure. It would at least let the pianists know that someone is listening. I don’t know if an applause button whose results are public would be appropriate or beneficial. It might just become another status symbol. It would probably be too complicated to install a button which the pianist who posted the piece could view, but not make it open to the public. An applause button might encourage more people to listen because many people enjoy providing some feedback on websites.

After saying all of that, I still am not sure that I would want an applause button. Probably not.

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 Post subject: Re: Applause Button
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:11 pm 
I only subscribe John's words (and also Natahan and others)
A criticism is better and more useful than an applause, but a little sign as an applause is better
than nothing....But I purpose 2 grades (which these are different things) : the applause and
the "Bravo" cry. Or "congratulations" and "standing ovation".

All best,
Sandro


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